With its adaptation of Mick Herron’s acclaimed Slough House novels, Apple TV+ is pulling no punches. Coming to the screen as Slow Horses, named after the first book in the espionage series, the streamer has none other than Gary Oldman taking on the role of Jackson Lamb – the irascible, unpredictable leader of a group of spies unified in the fact that they’ve all monumentally screwed up at a key point in their careers. Not only that, but he’s surrounded by stars including Jack Lowden, Olivia Cooke, Jonathan Pryce, and Kristin Scott Thomas, with a theme song by the one and only Mick Jagger.
As the series debuts on Apple TV+, thePilot TVpodcast sat down with Oldman and Lowden for a freewheeling conversation, taking in flatulence, unromanticised espionage, and that age-old debate: are you a shower actor, or a kitchen actor? Answers below.
PILOT TV: The first time you see Jackson Lamb, he wakes up in his office, he farts, he lights a cigarette, he has a massive cough, and then he yells his assistant's name at the top of his lungs. Where does this rank on your list of greatest character introductions in your career?
GARY OLDMAN: Yeah, it's pretty good. It's actually the fart that wakes him up. What comes first, the chicken or the egg? This is how it came about. At early screenings, some people were a little confused, with this Bond opening, this Jason Bourne thing at the airport with my friend here running around beating people up and leaping over stuff like a crazy person. And then it cuts to Slough House. And some people were a little confused, because it shifts so seismically from one to the other. Some people were saying, 'Where are we now? Oh, we thought we were watching one show, and now we're watching this show.' And so it really came about after we had shot the first six [episodes] that we were all putting our heads together thinking, you know, Jackson very much embodies the tone of the show. What do we need at the top that follows this sequence that will let the audience know the tone of the show? This is not quite what you expect, and you can laugh.
It was just off the top of my head. I said, 'We have that sofa, that couch that he lays on. He's one of these people, he's not always gonna go home. He's gonna sleep in the office. If he's sleeping on the couch, and he wakes up and he farts, that tells you right there what kind of world you're in.' We tried, and it worked, and it just so turns out that it is a great... It's how you meet someone. It's an interesting introduction, isn't it?
JACK LOWDEN: Yeah, I don't think you can get any better than that.
It's a hell of a first impression. Spy stuff in movies and TV shows almost always looks cool, but this is more about the boring parts of espionage. From the outside looking in, there's a lot about acting that looks cool too – what’s a boring but important part of acting that you had to do while playing this role?
JL: That is a very good point actually. We are in a very privileged job and it's great what we get to do, but there are parts of it there are very boring because of the magnitude of these things that we put together. There's so many moving parts, so as the actor you are just one of those parts. There is a lot of boredom at times. Specifically on this, nothing was boring. It's just the usual things of having to wait for a light to be the right way, or a mic to be the right way. Everybody on a film set does their job for a bit, and then someone else does their job, so I think anybody doesn't get to do their job all day kind of feels like that.
GO: But it did move.
JL: It did move quick. It is like a film, this. It kind of looks like a six hour film, but it still moved at the pace of high-end TV, and the production of it certainly did. There was always something. Hanging out with Gary on set, or Kristin Scott Thomas, or Jonathan Pryce... If you're getting bored with that, then you're doing something wrong.
"George Smiley wouldn't want anything to do with Jackson Lamb" – Gary Oldman
GO: When a man is bored with Jonathan Pryce...
JL: ...a man is bored with life!
That's a good saying! The dynamic between your two characters seems to flip between various levels of disdain, but there is some subtle mutual respect there. What conversations did you guys have with each other about building that relationship?
GO: I think the work in that sense was all quite accidental. When we were rehearsing, or when we had a little break in shooting, as you go along, you don't necessarily preconceive what what you're going to do. But we'd be in a scene, we'd be rehearsing a scene, and then we would chat, wouldn't we, and say, 'Actually, that was quite interesting, because there's this dynamic'. You discover those things as you go along. Those very subtle nuances that you're talking about are not always readily available in the script. I think it's the doing of it, isn't it. And it's the playing of it, where you could deliver a line and it's cynical or sarcastic, or whatever, but there's another intention there. You go, 'You know, he's really giving you hell today. But it's tough love, because really underneath it, he does respect you, and he does like you'. You can only really discover those things in the playing of it, of being in the room. There's only so much you can do in the work at home. And a lot of the work, that's where it's done. I call it 'Kitchen Acting'. But when you get to the set...
JL: I do mine in the shower.
GO: What, you run your lines?
JL: I'm a phenomenal actor in the shower. One of the best. It's a shame nothing's ever shot in there. I'm really good in the shower. Stand like that close to the shower wall.
GO: Oh, when you get the voice?
JL: Yes. [gruffly] "What are you talking about?"
GO: I do it in the kitchen.
JL: Right, okay. Different, innit. Do you do it with the fridge?
GO: No, not with the fridge. No, I use the room. I pace.
JL: I'm in a very small area, so that actually explains a lot. Maybe it should be a bigger area, like the bathroom in general.
Getting some interesting insights into your processes here…
GO: You're a shower actor, I never knew that. I'm learning this right now.
JL: Don't be afraid to come forward if you're a shower actor.
GO: "If you're a shower actor, call this hotline..."
We'll make sure we get some calls in. Gary, you played another old-school spy a little over a decade ago now – I think his name was George Smiley, you may remember him…
GO: I do remember.
If Jackson Lamb and George Smiley met, do you think they'd get along? What would they talk about? And most importantly, how long would it take for Lamb to break wind?
GO: I don't think they'd get on. They share the brain. They're very intuitive, very smart agents. But in terms of wanting to be around Jackson, Smiley barely tolerated Ricki Tarr, just being in a room with him. Smiley wouldn't want anything to do with Jackson Lamb.
JL: If they had to be in the same room, I don't think they'd say anything. I think Jackson Lamb would just eat a bag of crisps, wouldn't he, and keep offering them to Smiley. “D’you want one?” I think that's how it would go.
GO: The approach of them, I saw Smiley as an owl – very still, all-seeing, you know, those big glasses were like eyes of an owl. And Smiley turns very slowly, but sees everything. Jackson's like a hyena. What animal would you be? Come on, you went to drama school, you know all about this.
JL: Mine was an Indian Runner duck. That's what I used,
GO: For Cartwright? [guffaws]
JL: You know, where they sort of run at an angle.
GO: To answer your question, Smiley and Jackson Lamb... No! You'd have to watch it on Pay Per View, would you?
Listen to the full Slow Horses interview on the Pilot TV Podcast Episode of Slow Horses hit Apple TV+ on Fridays.