Everything about Joker was unexpected. The way that it nodded to Scorsese classics like The King Of Comedy and Taxi Driver; that it went on to bag Best Actor for Joaquin Phoenix at the Oscars; that it made over a billion dollars at the box office – all while riffing on Batman’s greatest foe. And so, when it became clear that Phoenix and filmmaker Todd Phillips were going to continue the story of Arthur Fleck, the question beckoned: how could you catch audiences off-guard all over again? The answer was to take a series of unexpected turns – notably, casting pop legend Lady Gaga as ‘Lee’, the Joker-verse’s incarnation of Harley Quinn, and pitching her into a music-fuelled romance with Phoenix’s Fleck. Make way for Joker: Folie À Deux.
The resulting wild brew made the prospect of a second film compelling to its leading man. “It’s the only way that I can do any movie,” Phoenix tells Empire in our world-exclusive Joker: Folie À Deux cover story. “If it doesn’t feel like it’s dangerous, if there’s not a good chance that you’re gonna fail spectacularly then... what’s the point?” His director concurs. “That was literally the reason to do it,” says Phillips. “The only reason Joaquin would even do a sequel is if it felt frightening to him. One thing he really got off on on the first movie was this fear, every day, this nauseous fear of like, ‘What are we fucking doing?’ He did not want it to be easy. And he wanted to feel as scared on this one. He goes, ‘Well, if I’m gonna do it, I just want to feel that it could not work.”
While Folie À Deux immediately follows the events of Joker, sending Arthur to Arkham in the wake of his televised killing of chat show host Murray Franklin, Phillips wouldn’t call it a traditional Part II. “I don’t think of it as a sequel. Hangover 2 was a sequel,” he says. “So often a sequel is more of the same, just bigger. Of course [Folie À Deux] is a sequel, but it felt like we were making something entirely different. It’s tonally and inherently something way more different. The first one subverted the expectations of what it was. So how do you do that again?” Get ready, then, for another fearless and fascinating take on a character who defies categorisation. “I always said, early on, the film should feel as if it was made by crazy people. Like the inmates are running the asylum,” notes Phillips. “It does feel like a big swing. You just go, ‘Well, fuck it. Why not? What are we all doing here, if not to do that?’” Arkham awaits.
Read Empire’s world-exclusive cover feature on Joker: Folie À Deux – speaking to Joaquin Phoenix, Lady Gaga, Todd Phillips and more about the making of their rule-breaking sequel – in the September 2024 issue, on sale Thursday 1 August. Pre-order a copy online here. Joker: Folie À Deux comes to UK cinemas on 4 October.