"I rarely envy any of you guys when you have to interview any of the Thrones cast, because it's that thing of you going, 'so, at the end of the last season, this happened, and that's where we saw your character, right?' And we say, 'yeah, and when it begins, we're kind of there, and then it goes to a place that I can't talk about...'" laughs Joe Dempsie, early into talking to Empire about his character Gendry's return to Game Of Thrones after three years. Conducted before this week's episode, Eastwatch aired, Dempsie talks about finding Gendry again, whether he'd warrant his own spin-off, and why his mum is now very happy...
Where were you when you got the call to return?
It never ceases to amaze me how these things tend to happen. I was going in for a meeting with my agents — just catch up and chat about how things are going and maybe what's floating around in the ether. There was something that I'd missed out on and I was kind of keen on it. It's actually quite rare that I allow myself to get in any way excited or attached to anything until I know I've got the part, but this one had got to me. I was going to go into my agent and make them therapists for half an hour. I was pissed off, basically, and had this big spiel in my mind that I was going to do.
I went in, we sat down and they said, "before we start, I've got some good news. Had a call from the guys at HBO and they want you back for Thrones Season Seven." That would've been the one thing that could've pepped me up. It was the best news I could've had. Even though at the end of Season Three, David (Benioff) and Dan (Weiss) had said to me, "the plan is absolutely to bring Gendry back at some point, we just don't know when..." But you're also aware that this is such a vast story they're trying to tell and so much material that they have to try and draw from and weave into a compelling narrative that plans can change. With each passing year, it might get to a point where they say, "you know what? We have too many characters, we don't have time for Gendry now, we've got to end this thing."
In the intervening three years, my mum would say to me, "what's happening with Game Of Thrones?" "I don't know, we'll just have to see..." "But you're friends with David Benioff, aren't you? You should give them an email..." Like any mum who's concerned that her son doesn't have a stable income. "Mum, they're very clever men. I'm sure they're not sat in their office seeing an email pinging from me, going, "Bloody hell, Gendry! Forgot about him! Better write him back in the story!"
When he leaves, he's in the rowboat, which he's never been in. And he can't swim. Has he just gone in a big circle in the bay round Dragonstone, and he's just coming back now?
Looking like Tom Hanks in Castaway! Davos saying, "I knew I couldn't trust such an idiot!" In terms of what Gendry's been doing in the intervening period, it's actually not something that we massively address. But the readers will know that there is a group of people making their way to King's Landing to convince Cersei that whatever battle she's waging now for control of Westeros, what everyone really needs to do is put all those quarrels to one side and join together to fight the common enemy, the army of the dead, making its way south.
You're asking people to believe in what is essentially myths and has been for years. Davos manages to slink off to see to some business and he has a feeling that he knows where I might be and he comes to the Street Of Steel and there I am, working in the armoury, pretty much where I started in Season One. Which I'm not sure is the best place to hide! But there's a thought in my mind that it's the only place Gendry knows really well and surviving in a familiar environment is probably easier than going somewhere totally foreign. Especially when he knows there are people who might still be after him.
He's tried to get rid of as much of his hair as he can, the thick black hair being the signifier of his Baratheon blood, and what Davos finds there is a young man who has been trying to keep his head down and lie low, but has also been biding his time. He doesn't quite know what for — he's been training and feels there's some kind of reckoning coming. He doesn't know what that is, but I think there's a restlessness to him.
He's waiting for a way back out and is making weapons for the family who killed his father and tried to kill him, so there's a certain amount of resentment there. He says yes to Davos without really thinking about it and it becomes clear in episode six that it's not a task you would want to stick your hand up for!
It's a very different situation for Gendry now, not least because he's the last real Baratheon with a claim to the throne.
I think the rather sweet thing is that there's scene later in the episode where Gendry meets Jon Snow and Davos has told him not to mention who he is. Gendry tells him not to worry, and the first thing he blurts out is that he's the bastard son of Robert Baratheon! For someone who hasn't known who he was for the majority of his life, to not only get an answer to that, but for that answer to be that you're the son of a king, there's royal blood in you... Not that Gendry's particularly arrogant, but I think he's feeling himself, he's proud. He knows about Jon Snow, he's heard about the King in the North and him being Ned Stark's bastard and there being some common ground there, and he's feeling he might have a connection to this guy.
Gendry has also forged himself a Warhammer in the style of Robert's legendary piece of kit, so he's proud of where he's from, whilst also being aware that he shouldn't go around shouting about it. But he's potentially more of a formidable force now.
Was he an easy character to come back to?
It was the first time I'd ever had to revisit a character I'd played a few years before. It was an interesting one, and a new challenge, but if I'm being totally honest, it wasn't that tricky. You go back and watch the old stuff and reacquaint yourself more with his story. It was always fairly instinctive with Gendry, anyway, what he'd been through informed how you would play him.
The reality is that because of the way Thrones is, traditionally there are so many different strands of the story to check in on in any given episode that, when you're one of the supporting roles, you feel like you're just chipping away, bit by bit. I still feel like I'm discovering who this person is myself. And so hopefully we'll discover more as the series progresses. I'm hoping that politically, the implications of Gendry returning will be explored as the story unfolds, and with that will undoubtedly become revelations about where else he might come from. I'm aware that because we're moving towards the climax that character exploration has to take a bit of a backseat to narrative drive and the end is nigh. It's got a bit of an Avengers Assemble-type feel where you can't fanny about too much with delving too deep into a character study, but hopefully there are new nuggets of information to discover.
You haven't been pushing for a Gendry flashback episode where it's him rowing for 10 minutes?
You've heard the talk of these spin-offs.... Why not? The Lost Years: three whole series of me rowing! Hour long episodes, almost Avant Garde if you've got the patience to stick with it.
How was coming back? Did you get a warm welcome?
"Oh, fuck's sake, we knew it had been quiet the last three years..." In reality, it felt a little quiet because half your friends are dead now! Game Of Thrones remains the largest scale production I've ever worked on. And it takes a while to get used to the sheer number of people it takes to make it, the size of the sets, green screen, all that stuff. I didn't really have any experience of that before, and it takes you a while to find that you're comfortable in that environment. It was a lovely feeling to find that, to think you can work on something of that size. Then you have three years off and you have the fear again. It took less time the second go around and then it absolutely felt like home again. It feels like you never left.
Was anything different given the show's increased status?
For the first three seasons, it was just something that we did. We were aware that the show was increasing in popularity and we all had a brilliant time working on it. But sometimes when you're in something from the beginning, it's only when you take a step back that you realise the full impact the show's having and what a phenomenon it is. And so, it was like getting a new job, and being told you'd landed a part in the biggest TV show in the world, which would make any actor happy.
There are little differences and I feel like I'm able to notice them because I've been away. But the main thing is that the show has grown and the hype that surrounds it. So, the level of security around guarding storylines and characters that might be meeting and scripts is way tighter than it ever was before. Any call sheets have character code names so if one is leaked you can't work out which characters were in scenes with others unless you had the key. There were times where we were told there might be photographers hiding in the bushes, so when you're travelling to set you've got an umbrella covering your face. That was never a consideration before. But everything else pretty much remained the same, and it was lovely to hang out with the cast.
It's been perfect for me, because I got to take those three years out, watch the show grow in popularity and see the hype for every new season, watch it as a fan, as excited as anyone else to see where the story's going. I've deliberately not read ahead or asked cast friends what they've been filming. And you get to watch it without the anxiety of knowing your face will pop up at any given moment! I'm now able to enjoy the madness that comes with being in Game Of Thrones a lot more.
But people have still been excited to see Gendry back.
The irony is that David and Dan thought it would just be long enough that people would forget about him and it would be a big surprise and of some import. But they underestimate just how thorough fans of the show are, and any loose end that is left untied, the longer it's left, the more conspicuous it becomes. It's been great to know that people are interested, that they care and want to see him come back. And my mum's really pleased!